President Bush opened his four-nation tour of Asia with provocative word（1） aimed at China. The president made his remarks after meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi in Kyoto. The president encouraged China to continue down the road to reform, saying Chinese leaders should meet the, quote, "legitimate demands of its citizens for freedom and openness." He went on to praise Taiwan for creating a free and democratic Chinese society, words seen as a direct challenge to Chinese leaders who consider Taiwan to be part of China. President Bush is now in South Korea where he'll meet with Asian leaders at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperative Summit. He heads to China and Mongolia this weekend.

Today, we talk with NPR correspondent Rob Gifford for the latest installment in our continuing series on China in the 21st century. Rob first went to China as a 20-year-old student in 1987. He reported on China for NPR from 1999 until September. During the six years, he covered China, Gifford took listeners from the fast-moving rapidly changing streets of Shanghei to the remote edges of the Gobi Desert. This hour, we'll look back at those six years of tumultuous change in China and what it's meant for the people who live there. If you have a question for Rob Gifford or have seen changes in China yourself, give us a call. Our number here in Washington is (800) 989-8255. That's (800) 989-TALK. And our e-mail address is totn@npr.org.

Rob Gifford joins us now from member station WDET in Detroit, Michigan. Thanks so much for being with us, Rob. Good to have you.

ROB GIFFORD (NPR's China Correspondent For Six Years): Thanks for having me, Lynn. It's good to be here.

1. provocative: 挑衅的 adj.

2. installment: 分期付款的（一期），（电台，电视台节目）一集

3. tumultuous: 动荡的 adj.

NEARY: Let's start off with the news of the day. First of all, what did you make of the president's comments about China and Taiwan?

GIFFORD: Well, certainly, as you say, the Chinese government will see this as very provocative, but I think they are probably going to play it down. Really, they don't like being lectured by the United States, but I think the relationship with the US is too important and there have been too many benefits that the Chinese have gained in the post-9/11 world to really stir up too much trouble over these comments from President Bush. But in the long run, certainly, it will just add to their unease about US support for Taiwan, their fear that the US could be in future supporting some kind of independent Taiwan, but in the short term I think they will look to get on as best they can with the US president when he visits this weekend.

NEARY: Well, the Chinese foreign minister already did react. He said, basically, `Well, that's fine. We can talk about the Taiwan problem with the US.' But the US must recognize Taiwan is part of China, which I guess is a fairly predictable response from Chinese leaders, but it makes me wonder if this was really the best way for the president to get off to a good start, I guess, in meeting with Chinese leaders, or they're just beginning with an impasse.

GIFFORD: Right, well, I think, obviously, President Bush has made this push for freedom around the globe very much part of his global foreign policy, and so it's been--we've seen it in the Middle East, and we've seen it before in Asia, and we've seen it from other officials in the Bush administration. I think one of the problems is, though, that over the last couple of years, especially with the situation in Iraq, and especially with the human rights abuses at Abu Ghraib （阿布格莱布监狱） and some of these instances, in the eyes of the Chinese, whatever moral high ground that the US might have had, has been very much eroded, and I think the Chinese now feel that they will not be lectured. I mean, they felt it really before, but that's really been heightened by what has happened in Iraq. They felt the whole situation, the invasion there, was illegitimate and they see the human rights abuses and the problems that have arisen for the US government there as very, very large, indeed, and that the US is in no position to lecture China about human rights and about democracy.

NEARY: Now, Rob, among the issues that's going to be discussed at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit is the danger of avian flu（禽流感）. And you covered the SARS outbreak in China and at that time China was not very forthcoming about the situation. What about now? Do you think that China learned its lesson from that experience and will be more forthcoming now, or will it be a repeat, possibly?

4. play sth. down （短语）降低影响

5. stir up: （短语）激起

6. impasse: n. 僵局=stalemate=deadlock

GIFFORD: I think they learned a huge lesson from SARS and the problem is, though, the people who learned the lesson are the people in the central government, and I have to say for all the problems that China has, and for all the intransigent old-style Communist Party aparatchiks that still exist in Beijing, there are--there is a new generation of people there in their 30s and 40s who really do want to address some of these problems, not just avian flu but many problems, and they are really trying to implement a kind of transparency. They are aware of the massive dangers of avian flu. The problem is, as it always has been throughout Chinese history, the curse of Chinese civilization is the local official. It's often not a problem in Beijing. It's the problem in the provinces and implementing this transparency. You've had officials who their just automatic reaction is to cover up, to cover up. They don't want to look bad. They don't want things to happen on their turf, on their watch. And so trying to get the lower level officials to go along with this greater transparency is really one of the biggest problems that the central government faces.

NEARY: What about China's relations with its Asian neighbors? I understand there's a growing anti-Japanese sentiment in China, for example, and, of course, there's a long history there. Why would that be re-emerging, or is it re-emerging, or is it simply becoming more obvious as China opens up?

GIFFORD: I think it's definitely emerging. We saw it in the spring with the anti-Japanese demonstrations in many Chinese cities. I think one of the reasons for it, really, is the demise of communism. No one really believes in communism anymore. It's--of course, China is still a one-party state. It can still be very much a police state when it wants to be, but, economically, it's moved away from communism, and, ideologically, it's moved away from it. No one believes in it anymore.

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